hai all...some more views of experts are here...
"Since the Greeks labelled it so long ago, it must be rather obvious that the first two types of love exist. It seems they are such an evident and essential part of life that they were able to identify them early on. However, the third presents a challenge.
As I see it, the first two types of love are instinctual, intrinsic and "compulsory" in the sense that nobody can circumvent them because they are motivated, driven and generated from deep within the psyche and basically unchangeable. No human being can live without being driven to form, or forming these love connections during a lifetime, whether successful or not.
But the third one, the "unconditional love", which I assume must occur sometime during adulthood, is far more elusive. In fact its so elusive that I don't believe most people ever arrive at that stage of maturity. I sounds closest to the love that a parent holds for a child, though not every parent, and not for every child".
"I think unconditional love can be achieved if we learn to accept others as they are. That is not the same as disagreeing, being angry, or disconnecting from those who appear to be obnoxious. As long as we love them. So, is love an action or a state of mind? I think as long as the action is not opposite of love, then love can exist"
"I agree with you: the first two are kind of "biologically based", and there's no way to "escape" from them.
The third one, "Unconditional love", is tricky. Not because it doesn't exist, but IMHO because it's been labeled as "love".
BTW, to me "disagreeing, being angry etc." may well be things that happen within a love relationship. This aversion against these feelings, feelings that to me appear to be as natural as the act of breathing, is IMHO wreaking havoc with the lives of many, as it suggests to NOT feel them, implicitly labeling them as "wrong", "bad", "undesirable", "low" and so on, and thus making who feels them (and much worse who EXPRESSES them) the same way.
Emotions are emotions. ALL of them are essential. We're talking "acceptance" here, so please consider accepting emotions that ain't pleasant. Only accepting them, and giving them voice, we can understand the instances that are behind them, and change them if and when they're a problem...
However, "unconditional love" is somehow a tricky "concept" to me."
"Answering the question of what is love is like trying to answer " The Chicken and egg question". The answers and experiences are subjective and vary"
"Dr Helen Fisher says...common man or woman says 'love is meeting of hearts and minds'...scientists say 'it is a temporary insanity driven by hormones'!
some classify love into three types....1. lust 2. romance 3. attachment
these three can operate in any order or combination.
some fall in love before sleeping with them.
some get attached deeply and then fall in love.
some have sexual relationship, fall in love and then deeply get attached.
Dr Fisher says "Lust is a craving for sexual gratification, which you can feel for a whole range of people. Those caught up in romantic love focus all their attention on the object of their affection. Not only do they crave them, but they are highly motivated to win them, they obsessively think about them and become extremely sexually possessive. Perhaps illogically, if things go wrong. they are attracted to them even more. During this state the brain is driven by dopamine, a neurotransmitter central to the reward system."
Romantic love is much more powerful than sex drive, says Dr Fisher. And she believes it to be a drive, rather than an emotion. "It doesn't have any facial expression, it's very difficult to control and it's one of the most powerful neural systems that has evolved," she says.
The third brain system is attachment - that sense of calm and security you can feel for a long-term partner. It is associated with the hormones vasopressin and oxytocin, which are probably responsible for the sense of peacefulness and unity felt after having sex. Holding hands also drives up oxytocin levels, as does looking deeply into your loved one's eyes, massage, and simply sitting next to them.
thanks to Dr Fisher"
"Love is the very moment -synchronicity- when we are given the gift of
"giving and be given" ; love is our personal ladder of evolution,
construct, access to "freedom" (no attachment, no expectation, no
possession).; love is growing up, it's the experiment of "yin and yang",
our scale of inner depth towards ourselves and the others. love is the
respect of the individual as unique and different in his wealth as
different. A life without love is an ignored death. There is a
difference between to be and to exist...There are many "degrees" with/in
"love", it is the discovery, mystery of our heart, Soul and our own
connection to "universe". Love is making the experience of our-Self,
participating to our own "acceptance" of who and what we are ; love is a
"state of Being" to tend to "be-come" Human. Love is meeting "our
other". Love is an act of identification, an individual commitment. When
we say "I love you", "Who" loves ? Love is learning Life."
"I would assert that love is established when two people meet that are on opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of personality, yet both want the same thing in life. One complements the weaknesses and strengths of the other."
"A point to remember is that IMO "love" is perceived differently by men and women.
Moving on to "unconditional" love. Gosh, what an insane idea! As in "s-he beats me over the head every second night, 24&7 s-he belittles, demeans and verbally assaults........but, boo/hoo, I love him/her inconditionally."
In a healthy relationship neither wants to live in the other"s pocket, nor know absolutely everything about the other, nor is one supposed to disgorge every single thought in one"s head. You know something.....a little mystery goes a loooong way."
"on one hand, I agree with your observation about "unconditional love". Yet, on the other hand, I do believe what you said is more about love relationship. It couldn't happen if you love yourself first, either.
Also, I believe your observation confirms my idea that the problem with "unconditional love" is the word "love" in it.
And about the last part of your post... I don't know whether it is or isn't "healthy": I know couples with the strongest relationship that DO know absolutely everything about the other, for example. To me, "privacy" is something for those who have something to hide.
And mystery is maybe going a loooong way for you, or for women. For me, it goes a long way the opposite direction.
I'll say it with a metaphor. When I enter a love relationship, it's like I give the keys of my deepest inner house to the other. She's free to get in whenever she likes to, and go exploring wherever she wants to. There are no hidden rooms in there for her. My "house" is her "house".
And viceversa...
Actually, I could say that my house and her house merge into "OUR house". :-)
I'm not scared of anything I could find. But I believe is one's right to know and find out.
This means I'll trust my partner. Blindly (or almost so). AND I'll feel free to get in unannounced and open whatever door, as I want my partner to do. If I find secrets, a door she won't allow me to see through, that's an issue, and could lead to troubles. If "two ones join together to form a bigger ONE", which is my description of a love relationship, there can be no hidden space between them, nor secrets of ANY kind. Secrets undermine trust, which to me is the main fundament of a love relationship. Of course, this requires on BOTH parts a totally impeccable and irreproachable behavior. In the house there must be NOTHING that the partner could find unappropriated. It looks difficult? It is. But that's the way I see love relationships working. ALL love relationship that I know of that WORK are that way.
Indeed, they're few. But they exist, and they're proof that this way is doable and working.
I remember a lady a few months ago. She was interviewed on TV about her love relationship, and she said: "We do everything together, and are available for the other all the time, and it's fine. It's when you start saying you need your spaces that things are deteriorating". And I somehow agree with her.
BTW... I'd rather leave that "unconditional love" alone, until another word is found to substitute "love" in that expression"
"Well, we shall agree to disagree, lol. I sure need my space, and equally I can assure you that after 29 years married we are doing OK. I like to meet my friends now and then for a meal or a chat, and I certainly do NOT do absolutely everything with my husband. I don"t haul him along if going for a beauty treatment, for example, or insist he sit in the bathroom while I do certain beauty routines. Maybe there ARE women who do that!
I am NOT talking about secrets, but yes, about privacy, something all humans, married or not are entitled to. Also, I know a fair bit about human nature after quite a few years on this old planet. And of course, everyone is different (just as well I say).
And, so far, we haven't deteriorated lol. Nor have the couples we know, married for a short number of years, some others for decades, who also, from what I see and know, enjoy their little "space". Maybe they are pitching the crockery at each other when no one is around. But, I doubt it. I"ll say it again. Living in each other"s pocket is downright unhealthy.
And yes, there are times when I am "the cat that walks alone". That is how I am, that is how my husband knows me, and he respects that. I don"t tell him (how boring!) all that I dreamt of last night, for example. I don"t repeat verbatim my last chat with a girlfriend, or a list of the clothes I"ve got to buy for next season..
Perfect does not exist in this world, as in "impeccable" and "irreproachable". There are no saints. I can assure you.
However, each to his or her own. Your way is doable and working, my way and that of others is also doable and working"
ok guys and gals...see you later...
rams
"Since the Greeks labelled it so long ago, it must be rather obvious that the first two types of love exist. It seems they are such an evident and essential part of life that they were able to identify them early on. However, the third presents a challenge.
As I see it, the first two types of love are instinctual, intrinsic and "compulsory" in the sense that nobody can circumvent them because they are motivated, driven and generated from deep within the psyche and basically unchangeable. No human being can live without being driven to form, or forming these love connections during a lifetime, whether successful or not.
But the third one, the "unconditional love", which I assume must occur sometime during adulthood, is far more elusive. In fact its so elusive that I don't believe most people ever arrive at that stage of maturity. I sounds closest to the love that a parent holds for a child, though not every parent, and not for every child".
"I think unconditional love can be achieved if we learn to accept others as they are. That is not the same as disagreeing, being angry, or disconnecting from those who appear to be obnoxious. As long as we love them. So, is love an action or a state of mind? I think as long as the action is not opposite of love, then love can exist"
"I agree with you: the first two are kind of "biologically based", and there's no way to "escape" from them.
The third one, "Unconditional love", is tricky. Not because it doesn't exist, but IMHO because it's been labeled as "love".
BTW, to me "disagreeing, being angry etc." may well be things that happen within a love relationship. This aversion against these feelings, feelings that to me appear to be as natural as the act of breathing, is IMHO wreaking havoc with the lives of many, as it suggests to NOT feel them, implicitly labeling them as "wrong", "bad", "undesirable", "low" and so on, and thus making who feels them (and much worse who EXPRESSES them) the same way.
Emotions are emotions. ALL of them are essential. We're talking "acceptance" here, so please consider accepting emotions that ain't pleasant. Only accepting them, and giving them voice, we can understand the instances that are behind them, and change them if and when they're a problem...
However, "unconditional love" is somehow a tricky "concept" to me."
"Answering the question of what is love is like trying to answer " The Chicken and egg question". The answers and experiences are subjective and vary"
"Dr Helen Fisher says...common man or woman says 'love is meeting of hearts and minds'...scientists say 'it is a temporary insanity driven by hormones'!
some classify love into three types....1. lust 2. romance 3. attachment
these three can operate in any order or combination.
some fall in love before sleeping with them.
some get attached deeply and then fall in love.
some have sexual relationship, fall in love and then deeply get attached.
Dr Fisher says "Lust is a craving for sexual gratification, which you can feel for a whole range of people. Those caught up in romantic love focus all their attention on the object of their affection. Not only do they crave them, but they are highly motivated to win them, they obsessively think about them and become extremely sexually possessive. Perhaps illogically, if things go wrong. they are attracted to them even more. During this state the brain is driven by dopamine, a neurotransmitter central to the reward system."
Romantic love is much more powerful than sex drive, says Dr Fisher. And she believes it to be a drive, rather than an emotion. "It doesn't have any facial expression, it's very difficult to control and it's one of the most powerful neural systems that has evolved," she says.
The third brain system is attachment - that sense of calm and security you can feel for a long-term partner. It is associated with the hormones vasopressin and oxytocin, which are probably responsible for the sense of peacefulness and unity felt after having sex. Holding hands also drives up oxytocin levels, as does looking deeply into your loved one's eyes, massage, and simply sitting next to them.
thanks to Dr Fisher"
"I would assert that love is established when two people meet that are on opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of personality, yet both want the same thing in life. One complements the weaknesses and strengths of the other."
"A point to remember is that IMO "love" is perceived differently by men and women.
Moving on to "unconditional" love. Gosh, what an insane idea! As in "s-he beats me over the head every second night, 24&7 s-he belittles, demeans and verbally assaults........but, boo/hoo, I love him/her inconditionally."
In a healthy relationship neither wants to live in the other"s pocket, nor know absolutely everything about the other, nor is one supposed to disgorge every single thought in one"s head. You know something.....a little mystery goes a loooong way."
"on one hand, I agree with your observation about "unconditional love". Yet, on the other hand, I do believe what you said is more about love relationship. It couldn't happen if you love yourself first, either.
Also, I believe your observation confirms my idea that the problem with "unconditional love" is the word "love" in it.
And about the last part of your post... I don't know whether it is or isn't "healthy": I know couples with the strongest relationship that DO know absolutely everything about the other, for example. To me, "privacy" is something for those who have something to hide.
And mystery is maybe going a loooong way for you, or for women. For me, it goes a long way the opposite direction.
I'll say it with a metaphor. When I enter a love relationship, it's like I give the keys of my deepest inner house to the other. She's free to get in whenever she likes to, and go exploring wherever she wants to. There are no hidden rooms in there for her. My "house" is her "house".
And viceversa...
Actually, I could say that my house and her house merge into "OUR house". :-)
I'm not scared of anything I could find. But I believe is one's right to know and find out.
This means I'll trust my partner. Blindly (or almost so). AND I'll feel free to get in unannounced and open whatever door, as I want my partner to do. If I find secrets, a door she won't allow me to see through, that's an issue, and could lead to troubles. If "two ones join together to form a bigger ONE", which is my description of a love relationship, there can be no hidden space between them, nor secrets of ANY kind. Secrets undermine trust, which to me is the main fundament of a love relationship. Of course, this requires on BOTH parts a totally impeccable and irreproachable behavior. In the house there must be NOTHING that the partner could find unappropriated. It looks difficult? It is. But that's the way I see love relationships working. ALL love relationship that I know of that WORK are that way.
Indeed, they're few. But they exist, and they're proof that this way is doable and working.
I remember a lady a few months ago. She was interviewed on TV about her love relationship, and she said: "We do everything together, and are available for the other all the time, and it's fine. It's when you start saying you need your spaces that things are deteriorating". And I somehow agree with her.
BTW... I'd rather leave that "unconditional love" alone, until another word is found to substitute "love" in that expression"
"Well, we shall agree to disagree, lol. I sure need my space, and equally I can assure you that after 29 years married we are doing OK. I like to meet my friends now and then for a meal or a chat, and I certainly do NOT do absolutely everything with my husband. I don"t haul him along if going for a beauty treatment, for example, or insist he sit in the bathroom while I do certain beauty routines. Maybe there ARE women who do that!
I am NOT talking about secrets, but yes, about privacy, something all humans, married or not are entitled to. Also, I know a fair bit about human nature after quite a few years on this old planet. And of course, everyone is different (just as well I say).
And, so far, we haven't deteriorated lol. Nor have the couples we know, married for a short number of years, some others for decades, who also, from what I see and know, enjoy their little "space". Maybe they are pitching the crockery at each other when no one is around. But, I doubt it. I"ll say it again. Living in each other"s pocket is downright unhealthy.
And yes, there are times when I am "the cat that walks alone". That is how I am, that is how my husband knows me, and he respects that. I don"t tell him (how boring!) all that I dreamt of last night, for example. I don"t repeat verbatim my last chat with a girlfriend, or a list of the clothes I"ve got to buy for next season..
Perfect does not exist in this world, as in "impeccable" and "irreproachable". There are no saints. I can assure you.
However, each to his or her own. Your way is doable and working, my way and that of others is also doable and working"
ok guys and gals...see you later...
rams
http://drkellyflanagan.com/2013/04/17/a-daddys-letter-to-his-little-girl-about-her-future-husband/"