hai all....some more views...of others....
"THAT is exactly why I said "...and keep checking along the way". :-)
There are ALWAYS signs showing incongruities and inconsistencies and allowing one to see WHO his/her partner really is. Of course, we usually "chose" not to see them... but they're there, and our UNconscious notices them all the time.
The cap off the shower gel bottle? AAAARRRRRGHHHHHHHHH! NOOOOOOOOOOO! I mean.... Who cares?
PS: What is a "shower gel bottle"? Or should I ask what a shower is, first?"
"We can't love others higher than how much we love ourselves. We can love ourselves as long as we don't sacrifice others. The tragedy is when a person love others and sacrificing oneself UNCONSCIOUSLY. The greatest love of all is when a person can love self and others and sacrifice oneself consciously. I don't know how many of us reach this level.
THis is pure opinion not absolute.."
"I couldn't agree more. Buddha and those who has reached enlightened continue to meditate after enlightenment. Bliss or happiness is pretty useless if we can't "go back" to it. Like there is a story by Anthony de Mello "Enlightened happens in 1 second" the teacher said. THe students asked "So, why do we practice day and night?" The teacher said,"to make sure you are awake when it happens."
I don't know if we are speaking about the same thing. I just have a strong positive reaction reading your post."
"The students asked "So, why do we practice day and night?" The teacher said,"to make sure you are awake when it happens."
Yes, I believe we are speaking about the same thing. We get an insight, an aha, a feeling of deep inner joy, and a "sensation" of enlightenment. Then, without realizing it, we may loose the feeling of it, but "think" we are still in it. However, unless we tune into our body "to make sure we are awake," and feel the clarity and essence, we may not even be aware that we're not coming from that awareness and state of love and wisdom -- the reason for "practicing day and night and sometimes in between"
"As far as the comment, "love is a choice," I agree with that. But how do we choose - through the head, heart or gut?
I have come to believe that we choose partners, more often than not, because of a magnetism that we interpret as love. That magnetism is often based on impulses in our bodies that we lived with as children - when we "felt" loved - or at least got attention and felt cared for. That feeling could have come from a parent who gave attention by badgering, demeaning, or yelling, and even abusing. Unconsciously we choose a partner with that same energy and go into the same attachment mode and behavior patterns as in childhood. We try to change that person to help us feel loved. When that doesn't happen - look out. That's when we judge, criticize and demean. But we must remember what we judge in another is something that is unresolved within ourselves. When we resolve our own issues, there is love, pure unadulterated love.
The real challenge is to break from this old umbilical cord and open to our own connection of the deep love within ourselves and be able to be in a relationship coming from love – rather than magnetism."
"I find it odd that the question is a very common one and it is very clear, but we are not answering the question, bu instead making our own agendas,and opinion known, about what we think we want to say about love. Bottom line there is no rhyme nor reason unless you go biological, and even there, it's a mystery. Love is allusive. Like air it is, and mst need it and want it"
"I'd say that if the question is so very common it's because nobody has a clear answer...
you just described how couple relationships usually start. Now, is it love? I don't know. Is that what people calls love? Yes, at least ONE of the things people call love. :-)
To me, your description contains the answer... That is not "love", but an attempt at "feel loved".
What I found about that is that either it's an attempt to "recover the felling of being loved", as you said (which, BTW, is wrong, because we were then loved by our PARENTS, and even if it was "good love" it wasn't the same "love" you build a marital relationship around... hopefully), or it's an attempt to "correct" a LACK of "feeling loved" by one of the parents (so we try to get loved by someone with the same characteristics and relationship dynamics, and end up being as abused and non-loved as we had been the first time...), or again it's a way to feel loveable... Like "If s/he loves me, than I'm lovable". Let's say it's a way to love oneself THROUGH someone else's love...
There may be more nuances, but "structurally" these are the main three cases I found. All of these cases show how "love" is intended to fill a void in one's affective "self", or life, so to say.
Now, if one REALLY, truly loves oneself in the first place, it may be a "love" in which one does NOT "need" the other one's love to fill a void, as there's no void in him/her: the void that was has been filled from inside...
And in this last case, the choice comes from the "whole" of the person: head, heart and gut. Whatever they are."
"Yes, that is where we need to be...love of self with no need to be loved. But the need remains to love, because that is how we stay healthy biologically, mentally and most of all, spiritually."
"you're right. We need to love. And maybe this "unconditional love" stuff was made up to fulfill that need, so that we can "love everything" without having to assume responsibility for a close, lasting relationship (I admit I sometime have this feeling about the "unconditional love" issue... Then I just shake the idea away and put the issue in the "unresolved" drawer again.
This makes me remember a elder woman in Tonga. She said to me once: "Humans are not meant to be alone. And when we get old, we need a reliable person at our side, someone who can take care of us and of whom we may take care. Someone of heart".
I think this shows how the needs in a love relationship vary in time, yet there's always that "caring" thing as foundation.."
"I am beginning to think, in my older age, that relationships are beds of karma...they are for learning about love, fear, guilt, etc. and sometimes we even find a teacher that appears to be our adversary or difficult to live with or communicate with or work for etc. ...but is there to teach us to accept...forgive...walk away of necessary, but not to get enmeshed with adversity and to love unconditionally. Otherwise, most of human love is conditional, I am sad to say. I love someone that I keep close to me because of how I describe that person or relative which is usually conditional"
"I think many who meet up, and marry successfully have interests in common, or have met in an environment where they shared those interests, studies, pursuits. I see this in a few of my young relatives. They were both in the same class at university, knew each other for years, and some time after graduation, got married, work in much the same field.
I definitely think "love" should not be acquired out of neediness, or because one wants someone to look after one. And "love" should not be sought with desperation, as in "better anyone at all than being alone".
"As I stated above, children often feel loved when they are given attention, even if it's negative attention. That being said, I believe we attract mates with energy similar primarily to the parent we have unresolved issues with and hope to change them. The mate might act and speak totally differently - even opposite, but the energetic vibrations are the same. And we try to change them to get them to love us -- or at least help us feel loved. The only way we can do that is to learn to "receive" love from our Higher Self.
I have come to believe that every person in our lives, with whom we have an emotional charge, is here to teach us something about ourselves and our openness (or closedness) to our Higher Selves. Whatever we criticize in another is something we still need to resolve within ourselves. When we resolve it, we are more open to receive our own Divine love and therefore can accept another's idiosyncracies about that issue and although he or she may still repeat the same behavior it won't bother us any more. That's when we're in a state of unconditional love"
"To me love has nothing to do with having the same interests, studies or pursuits - although that might be what attracts people to each other. However, I know a lot of couples who have these same interests but still aren't close to each other and don't experience that deeper level of love, To me deep love in a couples relationship ensues when there are no judgments, criticisms or demeaning accusations. And it means having the ability to keep our hearts open and "receive" each others love. It's when two souls merge that we have the feeling of connection and being "in love."
"Why would anyone want to change anyone, I ask! It is not a good idea to marry someone to change him or her, and anyone who gets married to someone for that purpose will quickly find out that they are on the wrong tack. L. And who doesn-t have little foibles or peculiarities. Things are often simpler than they seem. Turning the good old blind eye now and then is a commonsense approach.
And yes, there are a lot of lonely folks who are married. That"s probably because they married someone in order not to feel lonely or alone, or they married for a host of other wrong reasons.
Amazing how people will think through a contract, any contract, financial etc. but never give a thought to the marriage contract"
"I think many people do give thought to a marriage contract -- but they
don't know what to think about it or what they need to do to keep their
end of the bargain. Morton Hunt, a marriage researcher in the 1970's
said, "A good marriage is mutual psychotherapy." I think of it as being
coaches for each other - which means helping each other feel loved
within themselves and reach their highest potential. That takes
listening, validating, empathizing and sharing the love - and having a
good loving sex life helps as well."
"my husband of 35 years and I have almost no interests that are the same. The first night I met him I wrote a little ditty and it hasn't changed much:
We don't have the same interests,
He likes fishing and golf.
I like sailing and tennis.
He likes poker and football.
I like dancing and shows.
Why should I see him again?
Because!
Because we shared the same values and have a deep glue of love and respect that keeps our love glowing, growing, and flowing. And that is bliss!"
"I definitely think "love" should not be acquired out of neediness, or because one wants someone to look after one. And "love" should not be sought with desperation, as in "better anyone at all than being alone".": agreed on that, Yet, to love is something that could be defined as a "need". But again, these are just words, and there are so many level of "need" and so many ways of being "in need"...
"The mate might act and speak totally differently - even opposite, but the energetic vibrations are the same.": this is just another way of saying the very same thing I said: "we try to get loved by someone with the same characteristics and relationship dynamics, and end up being as abused and non-loved as we had been the first time".
And, yes, I totally agree with your statement: any couple who tells you they never have a little tiff or quarrel are lying."
ok guys...more views of others, later!
rams
"THAT is exactly why I said "...and keep checking along the way". :-)
There are ALWAYS signs showing incongruities and inconsistencies and allowing one to see WHO his/her partner really is. Of course, we usually "chose" not to see them... but they're there, and our UNconscious notices them all the time.
The cap off the shower gel bottle? AAAARRRRRGHHHHHHHHH! NOOOOOOOOOOO! I mean.... Who cares?
PS: What is a "shower gel bottle"? Or should I ask what a shower is, first?"
"We can't love others higher than how much we love ourselves. We can love ourselves as long as we don't sacrifice others. The tragedy is when a person love others and sacrificing oneself UNCONSCIOUSLY. The greatest love of all is when a person can love self and others and sacrifice oneself consciously. I don't know how many of us reach this level.
THis is pure opinion not absolute.."
"I couldn't agree more. Buddha and those who has reached enlightened continue to meditate after enlightenment. Bliss or happiness is pretty useless if we can't "go back" to it. Like there is a story by Anthony de Mello "Enlightened happens in 1 second" the teacher said. THe students asked "So, why do we practice day and night?" The teacher said,"to make sure you are awake when it happens."
I don't know if we are speaking about the same thing. I just have a strong positive reaction reading your post."
"The students asked "So, why do we practice day and night?" The teacher said,"to make sure you are awake when it happens."
Yes, I believe we are speaking about the same thing. We get an insight, an aha, a feeling of deep inner joy, and a "sensation" of enlightenment. Then, without realizing it, we may loose the feeling of it, but "think" we are still in it. However, unless we tune into our body "to make sure we are awake," and feel the clarity and essence, we may not even be aware that we're not coming from that awareness and state of love and wisdom -- the reason for "practicing day and night and sometimes in between"
"As far as the comment, "love is a choice," I agree with that. But how do we choose - through the head, heart or gut?
I have come to believe that we choose partners, more often than not, because of a magnetism that we interpret as love. That magnetism is often based on impulses in our bodies that we lived with as children - when we "felt" loved - or at least got attention and felt cared for. That feeling could have come from a parent who gave attention by badgering, demeaning, or yelling, and even abusing. Unconsciously we choose a partner with that same energy and go into the same attachment mode and behavior patterns as in childhood. We try to change that person to help us feel loved. When that doesn't happen - look out. That's when we judge, criticize and demean. But we must remember what we judge in another is something that is unresolved within ourselves. When we resolve our own issues, there is love, pure unadulterated love.
The real challenge is to break from this old umbilical cord and open to our own connection of the deep love within ourselves and be able to be in a relationship coming from love – rather than magnetism."
"I find it odd that the question is a very common one and it is very clear, but we are not answering the question, bu instead making our own agendas,and opinion known, about what we think we want to say about love. Bottom line there is no rhyme nor reason unless you go biological, and even there, it's a mystery. Love is allusive. Like air it is, and mst need it and want it"
"I'd say that if the question is so very common it's because nobody has a clear answer...
you just described how couple relationships usually start. Now, is it love? I don't know. Is that what people calls love? Yes, at least ONE of the things people call love. :-)
To me, your description contains the answer... That is not "love", but an attempt at "feel loved".
What I found about that is that either it's an attempt to "recover the felling of being loved", as you said (which, BTW, is wrong, because we were then loved by our PARENTS, and even if it was "good love" it wasn't the same "love" you build a marital relationship around... hopefully), or it's an attempt to "correct" a LACK of "feeling loved" by one of the parents (so we try to get loved by someone with the same characteristics and relationship dynamics, and end up being as abused and non-loved as we had been the first time...), or again it's a way to feel loveable... Like "If s/he loves me, than I'm lovable". Let's say it's a way to love oneself THROUGH someone else's love...
There may be more nuances, but "structurally" these are the main three cases I found. All of these cases show how "love" is intended to fill a void in one's affective "self", or life, so to say.
Now, if one REALLY, truly loves oneself in the first place, it may be a "love" in which one does NOT "need" the other one's love to fill a void, as there's no void in him/her: the void that was has been filled from inside...
And in this last case, the choice comes from the "whole" of the person: head, heart and gut. Whatever they are."
"Yes, that is where we need to be...love of self with no need to be loved. But the need remains to love, because that is how we stay healthy biologically, mentally and most of all, spiritually."
"you're right. We need to love. And maybe this "unconditional love" stuff was made up to fulfill that need, so that we can "love everything" without having to assume responsibility for a close, lasting relationship (I admit I sometime have this feeling about the "unconditional love" issue... Then I just shake the idea away and put the issue in the "unresolved" drawer again.
This makes me remember a elder woman in Tonga. She said to me once: "Humans are not meant to be alone. And when we get old, we need a reliable person at our side, someone who can take care of us and of whom we may take care. Someone of heart".
I think this shows how the needs in a love relationship vary in time, yet there's always that "caring" thing as foundation.."
"I am beginning to think, in my older age, that relationships are beds of karma...they are for learning about love, fear, guilt, etc. and sometimes we even find a teacher that appears to be our adversary or difficult to live with or communicate with or work for etc. ...but is there to teach us to accept...forgive...walk away of necessary, but not to get enmeshed with adversity and to love unconditionally. Otherwise, most of human love is conditional, I am sad to say. I love someone that I keep close to me because of how I describe that person or relative which is usually conditional"
"I think many who meet up, and marry successfully have interests in common, or have met in an environment where they shared those interests, studies, pursuits. I see this in a few of my young relatives. They were both in the same class at university, knew each other for years, and some time after graduation, got married, work in much the same field.
I definitely think "love" should not be acquired out of neediness, or because one wants someone to look after one. And "love" should not be sought with desperation, as in "better anyone at all than being alone".
"As I stated above, children often feel loved when they are given attention, even if it's negative attention. That being said, I believe we attract mates with energy similar primarily to the parent we have unresolved issues with and hope to change them. The mate might act and speak totally differently - even opposite, but the energetic vibrations are the same. And we try to change them to get them to love us -- or at least help us feel loved. The only way we can do that is to learn to "receive" love from our Higher Self.
I have come to believe that every person in our lives, with whom we have an emotional charge, is here to teach us something about ourselves and our openness (or closedness) to our Higher Selves. Whatever we criticize in another is something we still need to resolve within ourselves. When we resolve it, we are more open to receive our own Divine love and therefore can accept another's idiosyncracies about that issue and although he or she may still repeat the same behavior it won't bother us any more. That's when we're in a state of unconditional love"
"To me love has nothing to do with having the same interests, studies or pursuits - although that might be what attracts people to each other. However, I know a lot of couples who have these same interests but still aren't close to each other and don't experience that deeper level of love, To me deep love in a couples relationship ensues when there are no judgments, criticisms or demeaning accusations. And it means having the ability to keep our hearts open and "receive" each others love. It's when two souls merge that we have the feeling of connection and being "in love."
"Why would anyone want to change anyone, I ask! It is not a good idea to marry someone to change him or her, and anyone who gets married to someone for that purpose will quickly find out that they are on the wrong tack. L. And who doesn-t have little foibles or peculiarities. Things are often simpler than they seem. Turning the good old blind eye now and then is a commonsense approach.
And yes, there are a lot of lonely folks who are married. That"s probably because they married someone in order not to feel lonely or alone, or they married for a host of other wrong reasons.
Amazing how people will think through a contract, any contract, financial etc. but never give a thought to the marriage contract"
"my husband of 35 years and I have almost no interests that are the same. The first night I met him I wrote a little ditty and it hasn't changed much:
We don't have the same interests,
He likes fishing and golf.
I like sailing and tennis.
He likes poker and football.
I like dancing and shows.
Why should I see him again?
Because!
Because we shared the same values and have a deep glue of love and respect that keeps our love glowing, growing, and flowing. And that is bliss!"
"I definitely think "love" should not be acquired out of neediness, or because one wants someone to look after one. And "love" should not be sought with desperation, as in "better anyone at all than being alone".": agreed on that, Yet, to love is something that could be defined as a "need". But again, these are just words, and there are so many level of "need" and so many ways of being "in need"...
"The mate might act and speak totally differently - even opposite, but the energetic vibrations are the same.": this is just another way of saying the very same thing I said: "we try to get loved by someone with the same characteristics and relationship dynamics, and end up being as abused and non-loved as we had been the first time".
And, yes, I totally agree with your statement: any couple who tells you they never have a little tiff or quarrel are lying."
ok guys...more views of others, later!
rams
It is not uncommon for people to meet in the venue where they study, or are engaged in work etc. Maybe some do meet on cloud nine, but that is hardly a good basis for a future long partnership!
. It is most constructive to have the same interests, or at least some of the same interests as one"s spouse. And also for each spouse to have other interests.
I think this is stating the obvious>
"To me deep love in a couples relationship ensues when there are no judgments, criticisms or demeaning accusations".
Equally I can tell you that any couple who tells you they never have a little tiff or quarrel are lying"