From: M.RAMASUBRAMANIAN R.MANICKARAJAN <mramasubramanian1@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: two interesting mails and replies...
To: "M.RAMASUBRAMANIAN R.MANICKARAJAN" <mramasubramanian1@yahoo.co.in>
Date: Friday, 11 May, 2012, 4:20 PM
hai friends...how are we?
as you know, i have been sending mails to the indian psychologists yahoo group and the group has been receiving interesting comments on these mails...i am not listing the appreciating mails here as they don't add any value except the happiness value for me...but intriguing mails and my replies add more value, i think...so, i have added those mails here...
first is the mail from other person...below is my reply...
for the second mail you have to go to the bottom of the mail...above that is my reply...
yesterday i happened to visit KGIsL Institute of Technology, coimbatore where i came to know that the principal reads my mails with interest and she along with the vice principal discussed many related issues...and it was an interesting discussion...
when i went to my daughter's college some time back, some of the parents identified me with my mails which again gave me some sense of satisfaction...
no go ahead...the mail received is below...
Re: [IndianPsychologists] Re: You can be proud of being an Indian Psychologist!.. a serious note!!!!!!!
Wednesday, 9 May, 2012 12:49 PM
From:
"Sakthi Dharan" <dharan.sakthi@gmail.com>
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To:
IndianPsychologists@yahoogroups.co.in
Dear Ramasubramanian,
I appreciate your earnestness, enthusiasm
and goodwill. At the same time I just wanted to turn the mirror on to yourself
through my passing comment on Rama! Thank you for taking notice of it.
There is a story about Mullah Naseerudin:
He spent twenty years in the wilderness and
finally attained enlightenment. When he looked around, the whole world seemed
to be in a mess; nothing was in order. He decided to make every effort to change
the world for the better. After twenty years of hard labour – of preaching and
counselling and the lot - he took stock of things and found that the world had
not improved a bit, but, in fact, gone worse! He realised that he could not
change the world in his lifetime; so he decided to limit to his work within his
family. He pursued his family members and counselled each one of them. When he
took stock again after twenty years, to his utter dismay, he found that his kin
had gone from bad to worse during those twenty years. Then he realised that it
was futile trying to change others! He had very few years left and he decided
to spend the rest of his life transforming at lest himself.
We are a confused lot; we mix up charlatan godmen
and genuine yogis, spirituality and religion; science and truth; reason and
belief; objectivity and subjectivity. When we try to teach others we should be
clear about what we are talking. For example, God is different things to
different people. Before trying to pass sweeping judgments about concepts like
God one should try to understand the origin, evolution and dynamics of such belief
systems in different cultures, not through centuries but through millenniums. My
dear Ram, let me tell you with all sincere regards (and without any intent to
hurt your ego) you had never made any serious effort to understand what Gita is
all about! If you had, you would never have been so vainly boastful, of
irrelevant things mentioned in your anecdote.
How many of our youngsters ever made any
serious attempt to explore and find out whether there is anything of real worth
in our “Great Heritage” about which we vainly glorify.
I had once before narrated the story of the
great Sreenivasa Sasthri. I shall repeat it:
Once, Sasthri was addressing an audience of
acclaimed intellectuals in Geneva,
on Indian Culture. After the speech, one among the admiring audience enviously
praised the immaculate English. Casting a scornful look towards the person, he
retorted,” Gentleman, I am brought up in a 6000 year old culture, and learning
a simple language like English is not a big deal. But all the while I have been
talking about the fundamental tenets of a profound culture. It is a pity that
you could appreciate only the outward embellishments of the language!”
As psychologists we are obsessed with what
is wrong with everyone else! If we could ever look at ourselves with the same
keenness there would not have been so much jealousy and ego trips in the Psychology
Depts around the country and so much power-politics in various psychology
associations and groups!
Loka
samastha sukhino bhavanthu!
Sakthi.
From:
"M.RAMASUBRAMANIAN R.MANICKARAJAN" <mramasubramanian1@yahoo.co.in>
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To:
IndianPsychologists@yahoogroups.co.in
thank you for taking your precious time to read my mail and having given so much of info.
My purpose of joining the group, as i clearly brought out, is to enhance my knowledge on all issues related to human beings. I would certainly like to clarify these issues only from specialists like the people in this group and not from others who have different attire.
Each one of us on earth only have limited knowledge. Knowledge and experience of every one is different, unique, has equal importance (there is no inferior or superior knowledge/experience) and can not be undervalued. It is not possible for one person to achieve all types of knowledge and experience. Therefore, sharing of knowledge and experience is the only way of enhancing our wisdom. When i joined the group in 2009 i found a lot about conferences, specific clinical issues, courses etc being discussed but not much about the concepts. So, i thought i will write what i feel so that i get more info, and of course, others too. The purpose is being achieved.
When i read about the Mullah Naseerudin story i am reminded about a joke i heard recently from a naval officer who did a capsule course on psychology. I believe he was told during the course that 'psychology is like an umbrella. To be kept outside the house and used. When we enter the house it should be left outside the door step and not to be taken in so that rain inside the house is avoided!'
. Yes. I agree with you that change has to happen within. Also the change has to happen inside the psychologists first.
When i read the theories of learning, it just occurred in my mind that only those who use the knowledge acquired through formal education for bringing in relatively permanent change in behaviour can be called as 'learned' people. They might use it for earning the materialistic things too in life. But those who use it only for earning materialistic things can be called only 'educated' and not 'learned'. As a corollary it also occurred to me that even a school boy can be called as a 'learned' person if he is primarily using his education to transform into a noble personality and that a highly 'educated' and aged person may not be a 'learned' person if he has used his education to only earn wealth!
So, psychologists have to be 'learned' people and they should use it to transform the society not only through their speeches but also by being a personal example / role model.
You are right. All are confused. But i think the outsiders can be confused but not the psychologists who have to bring in the clarity to the outside people so that they are not misled by selfish god-men or politicians. That is the reason, i feel, psychologists have got a greater role to play in directing the people in right direction, if required in a saffron attire!!
...as
i feel they can take the contents of great books or vedas to the masses
through their science base without corrupting the contents in an
understandable and convincing manner. As i said earlier, i am an infant here to learn from the education and experience of academicians, doctors and professionals who have many decades of knowledge and experience. Therefore this child has no ego and can not boast.
Moment we have ego or feeling that 'i know every thing' 'i am a doctor'
'i am a professor' 'i have decades of experience' etc there is no scope
for further learning or improvement. I attend functions as Chief guest
and also attend classes of select teachers and select subjects in the
same colleges. Air flows from high pressure to low pressure. Heat flows
from high temperature to low temperature. Knowledge also follows the
same principle. I am here with empty bowl and therefore, i have no
doubts that my bowl will be full every day!!I don't have any doubts that our country has rich heritage and culture. But the carriers of these to the people only corrupt the knowledge with superstition. They, like politicians, make the people emotionally involved with everything by connecting the heritage/ culture with god, religion, caste, social status etc. This keeps the common people in confusion and high emotional state (where no logical thinking is possible) so that the self motivated people can exploit them.
I think when the psychologists become 'learned' people then ego-trips and power politics will become history and probably these things are occurring only due to the few handful 'educated' psychologists!
rams
Now for the second mail, go down to the bottom of this mail...then come up for my reply...
From:
"M.RAMASUBRAMANIAN R.MANICKARAJAN" <mramasubramanian1@yahoo.co.in>
View contact details
To:
IndianPsychologists@yahoogroups.co.in
thank you so much for the good discussion.
You have brought out some good points. When human beings were in
jungles as a transforming species (as 'food gatherers') so many
differences were not there. By and large they were peaceful, at least
without the differences and divide that is existing now in the name of
country, religion, caste, race, god, beliefs etc. When he became a 'food
producer' by living at one place all the social systems started with
their baggage of divisions in all forms with individual differences.
Then books and epics had to be written, religions had to be formed,
great thinkers and prophets had to think looking at the mess and come
out with guidelines for happy living to unite people etc. The sole aim
of all these you have written is to
unite people, come out of their individual differences, understand the
value of each other and live in peace, they way they lived thousands of
years back in the jungles, but with all the comforts of developments in
science and technology. So, let us read all these, i will certainly read
and i am personally thankful to you for giving me the info (i would be
really grateful if you can give info about more books and knowledge
treasures), and with the knowledge gained let us put in our bit of
keeping the people united, forget the differences and live in peace.
Learning is to 'live' and not just to 'exist' or 'survive'. All these
books give value education to add value to life and not to understand
the reasons for the divide or to increase it. I am sure we will use it
for this purpose and not for earning material wealth or catch fish in
the confusion.The fundamental question is 'Is there any need for a religion?' when it increases only divide among human beings. More they are - religions, caste, sub caste and all those which divide the human beings - more the mess!
Yeah. Maslow's theory, i found to be the best one which answers most of the problems in social systems. Thanks to my professors at PSG Arts and Science who taught this nicely (though i have read this thirty years back during my BTech) to understand with relevance to psychology. I will add more to this later as it would be beyond the scope of this mail.
So, i think, we should not fight like others taking these things in hand with emotional involvement. Instead look for things in them and outside which can keep us united as human beings and not to differentiate us based on our country or religion or other differences!...Let us go back to our good old jungli days friends with all the worldly comforts!
Keep rocking!
I am saving all these mails which contain sources of knowledge!
thank you again sir...
can any one suggest me some good simple books on neuro sciences?
rams
Re: [IndianPsychologists] Re: You can be proud of being an Indian Psychologist!.. a serious note!!!!!!!
Thursday, 10 May, 2012 8:37 PM
From:
"Mani Ramana Cherukuri" <cherukurimani@gmail.com>
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To:
IndianPsychologists@yahoogroups.co.in
Religion is a way of life. It is a type of descipline
followed by people. Having too many Gods, having too many beliefs etc
happens due to individual differences. I think one have to be mature
enough to talk about a tradition or a religion.Traditions depend on the
climatic conditions, availability of resources in a given place where
that tradition is being followed.
To understand a religion, one has to first read what
that religion says. that maturity comes from readsing books of that
religion, or listening to people who read books and understood the
religion. It is not wrong to speak about a religion, but first
understand it and then discuss.
Like Maslows Needs theory of hirachy, depending of the
mental need the maturity of something starts in mind of an Individual.
It can be hirarchy of maturity. If some body says some thing of Geetha,
its because of his maturity level. If a child of 10 years reads he
understands differently from a man of 40 years or 70 years. The child of
10 years mayhave better understanding than the other in some cases.
In the name of Gods or traditions, the rligion keeps an
individual in positive side of life, positive way of spending time,
which is necessary for attainment of Moksha. it a track takes one
to ones lifes goal.
To understand Hinduism, to get answer FOR many Gods (as
equal to all beings and existing and non existing), one has to read
first :TATVA BHODA, then VIVEKA CHOODAMANI - then SADHANA CHATUSTAYAM
and any two UPANISHEDS. After which one will not have any doubts, will
not criticise, or be doubtful. It is like helping ones self. happiness
every where and nothing to talk.
So, If some body comments on Geeta or Rama or Krishna,
he is in need of understanding concept, its a good time in his life as
change starts with this. His brain has doubts, so starts listening or
till he gets answers, his brain will not rest. It is invitable.
the Books mentioned above are written by Sri
Sankaracharya, which are available in all languages now. by reading
first book, one can understand the meaning of terminology, used in
teaching Hindu Philosophy, the second book explains, who is capable of
understanding the Philosophy, the 3rd book explains how to understand
the philosophy, the 4th book explains actual Philosophy. One has to
first understand step by step through the above books, then one can be
doubt less. hope it helps all readers. there will be great change in all
brains in thinking process. One can understand why Hindus allowed other
religious people enter India. Why Hindus, keep adding Gurus or Gods.How
Hindus can see oneness in many gods.The person who really reads above
books, not only understands the greatness of Hinduism, but also
understands Christianity, Buddism and all other religions. I think it
improves, his role as a Parent, teacher,brother and as a human.
(For children start with stories from Puranas , then
lead them to Vedas and to Vedanta that is Upanisheds, then they will be
happy for ever - That was education system of India, before entry of
British)
Thank You
Mani so, lots of blasting in the group there...
bye...keep rocking....
rams
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